Baring My Thoughts...

Spanking and Domestic Discipline
Tatyana
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:37 am
Location: Georgia

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Tatyana » Sun May 27, 2018 5:10 am

Thanks. I’d love the verses (not Ephesians 5, though, as unfortunately doesn’t mention punishment of wife by spanking.)

Lauren
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:45 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Lauren » Sun May 27, 2018 4:04 pm

Tatyana,

There is not one bible verse that says SPANK your wife. It's not there. How a husband disciplines his wife is up to him. As long as it is in a way that is pleasing to the Lord. Verses like Ephesians 5 and 1 Peter 3 were put into place because at the time it was written women were not being treated right by their husbands. They were equal to slaves. Wives are to be treated like the daughter of the King, which we are. It is saying that we as wives are to conduct ourselves in a manner pleasing to our husbands and the Lord so they do not need to discipline us.

Tatyana
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:37 am
Location: Georgia

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Tatyana » Sun May 27, 2018 5:05 pm

Lauren,

Thank you for sharing exactly what I actually believe, as well. As you stated, women were treated as property, and Jesus demonstrated how a husband and wife should live as equal, yet with different roles. I’ve actually heard of people that say it’s in the Bible, but I have read every word of it, and have never found anything.
Period. Your reference to the cultural norm is excellent and well phrased. I admire your discernment of His Word. Thank you for allowing me to ask several questions, and I’ve enjoyed the information, and pleased to hear your wisdom, as well.
Tatyana

Lavendar
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 7:28 pm

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Lavendar » Mon May 28, 2018 1:39 pm

Lauren and Tatyana,

I value this discussion greatly. I am a Christian of a Reformed church. Our church believes in submissive marriage, but only as far as the husband is able to be a good leader.

I have yet to find anything in the Bible that requires the husband to discipline the wife. My understanding is that the wife gives submission freely. Thoughts?
Lavendar :)

Lauren
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:45 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Lauren » Mon May 28, 2018 2:03 pm

Lavender,

To me, this website answered alot of questions I had. In this article he explains alot and also gives you links to other things he has written regarding things he says in this article. He explains it better then I would.

https://biblicalgenderroles-com.cdn.amp ... ur-wife%2F

CassLynn
Posts: 1118
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by CassLynn » Mon May 28, 2018 2:30 pm

I respect other beliefs but I believe that there is no biblical or religious mandate for a husband to discipline his wife. He is to lead her and she is to follow him. That’s what’s actually there. If individual couples decide to obey that principle by using DD I think it is acceptable. I definitely do not believe that any couple living together without the husband acting as disciplinarian are failing to follow any religious edict. Whatever way works for them to establish the husband’s leadership I think is acceptable to God. I do think that the DD dynamic is very helpful for many couples to increase unity, closeness, and commitment and encourage nobility in the husband and submission in the wife. And certainly many wives actually want to be helped to achieve their own goals by being spanked. A DD relationship doesn’t start unless the submissive actually wants the Hoh to take that role.

I also believe that God prefers the dynamic that DD, when enforced by an honorable man, brings to a marriage over the modern teaching that if a woman does happen to degrade herself by attaching to a man in marriage, she should be as willful, critical, demanding and disrespectful as she likes and the man should be a good sport about it all as a form of reparations for all the oppression women have suffered over the ages. That’s just not going to make for happy marriage or happy people or strong families. Men need respect, as Dionysyus likes to point out. They are simply not free to give their wives the love and affection she craves without receiving respect. Her respect feeds his love, which feeds her respect, etc. I think that’s what pleases God and however a couple gets there best is acceptable.

The angle I’m coming from is a church where the importance of strong and virtuous women is frequently emphasized, and she is described as the crowning glory of God’s creations, being the last of all things created. Husbands are frequently counseled to learn from their wives and listen to her wise counsel. Wives are taught to follow their husbands inasmuch as he is righteous. Husbands are to provide and wives are to nurture.

Lavendar
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 7:28 pm

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Lavendar » Tue May 29, 2018 8:06 am

Thank you, ladies.

I generally believe what CassLynn is saying. I do feel that given how specific the Bible can be in all areas, it is notable in its lack of specificity on wife discipline. I've spent quite a bit of time over the past month reading what the gentleman at BGR has written. He troubles me in several areas - including pornography, polygamy, lack of awareness of the physical effects on the brain of true emotional abuse, and a tendency to take verses out of context. I am therefore very cautious about what he writes. There is certainly some truth to what he writes, but I tend to agree that the Bible allows for loving discipline without specifically requiring it. It seems to me to be purposely vague in order to allow for each couple to make their own decision as to what the husband's headship will look like.

I am respectful of others' beliefs here, but this basically sums up my own beliefs that have been shaped by my conservatively educated pastors. Wives are absolutely called to submission, but that gift puts more onus on the husband to be a loving example. If he crosses a line, then the wife should be able to speak up in a respectful way, as did Esther.

Blessings,
Lavendar
Lavendar :)

Tatyana
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:37 am
Location: Georgia

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Tatyana » Tue May 29, 2018 8:54 am

Thanks for joining in, and sounds like you agree with Lauren and I. Feel free to post, email etc. either of us. You will definitely find us easy to talk to about just about anything 🤓
Tatyana

CassLynn
Posts: 1118
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by CassLynn » Tue May 29, 2018 9:07 am

“Wives are absolutely called to submission, but that gift puts more onus on the husband to be a loving example. If he crosses a line, then the wife should be able to speak up in a respectful way, as did Esther.”

This helps to answer the question I described in my journal. Thank you.

c_and_c
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:32 pm

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by c_and_c » Wed May 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Hi

I also respect other beliefs, and it is important as a Christian for me not to judge. But I would like to make a few observations, and request some information. While yes, the bible does not outright say discipline your wife. It most certainly has many teachings that make it clear that not only is it accepted, it is expected. First we can take examples from God himself, as his bride is many times referred to as the people, and city of Israel. He punishes his bride many times. Hosea 2 is an excellent example of it clearly making the husband and wife relationship, and it clearly talks about his punishment for disobedience. It even goes as far as maintaining the description by focusing on calling Isreal the wife, and how she is being punished, and even humiliated, by the husband in this case God.


“ She no longer acts like my wife.
She no longer treats me like her husband.
Tell her to stop acting like a prostitute.
Tell her to remove the lovers from between her breasts.
3 If she refuses, I will strip her.
I will leave her as naked as the day she was born.
I will turn her into a dry and barren land,
and she will die of thirst.
4 I won’t love her children,
because they are children of a prostitute.”


How about Jesus well he does it also. Several times. Now keep in mind the reference of bride, and groom made with the church, and Christ. Well here is what he says to seven churches as he gets angry with them and rebukes and disciplines them. Even uses the word discipline in 1 Corinthians 4:21


“For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power. 21What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod of discipline, or shall I come in love and with a gentle spirit?”


Hmmm so from what I see with this he knows that there are two ways to deal with his bride. Rod of discipline, or gentle sprit. I would assume emulation of Christ is ideal. Well you could say that he is trying to say that they would not like that so he is not condoning discipline. Well he totally does here, he directly answers this and surprise to me he seems to be a lot more hash than I would be to my wife. He tells a parable of authority, and punishment. This defiantly applies to husband and wife, and I will explain later. Luke 12:47 - 48


“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”


Here he even advocates beatings, even if the submissive is unaware that what they did was a punishable offence. This surprised me as, I would not punish my wife without her knowing what she did was wrong. Jesus says nope, if its punishable, punish regardless of knowledge.

Well it says Master, and a husband is not master of a wife. Well yes he is. The bible uses the word Master when referring to wife’s husband. The word or term Baal is used to describe a husband to a wife. That word mean Lord, Master, Owner in modern translation. For example, Sarah called her husband Lord <baal> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal ), in other words she knows that he was her Master/Owner/Husband. Also, please keep in mind that this was a parable. Therefore there is no gender applied, and the role is master slave. I.E. Parent-Child, King-people, Judge-defendant, Boss-employee, Master-slave. The parable applied to all positions of power, or authority. Which is definatly what the bible describes a Husband-Wife relationship.

Finally, I would ask for some help on a few things that I see mentioned. I really don’t want to go away from a DD discussion, I hope it’s related enough to allow me to ask. I would like to know where in the bible does it say that a woman is the crowning glory of gods creation? Because it says the opposite here 1 Corinthians 11:7. Or being last created elevated her, because the bible explains why she was last created in Genesis. The bible clearly shows the purpose of eves creation Genesis 2:18 says that she was created for the purpose of being a helper to man. Not as his partner or someone he should listen to, but his helper. It is also important to note that what made god angry on the original Sin was the fact that Adam listened to Eve in the first place. Its literally the first things he says to Adan when he finds out what happened. Genisis 3:17


“To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’”

The first thing he did wrong, and got punished for was listening, and taking counsel from his wife, and god said to him get out, and take your stuff with you, BTW you’re going to die. Husbands are frequently thought to learn from their wives. Hmmm this one scares me because the bible teaches the opposite here 1 Timothy 2:11-14 it explains that it’s not allowed, and even goes as far and to give the reason why.

Last I want to re-iterate, I am not judging anyone. Please take what I say with a grain of salt your relationship with God is a personal one. I am just genuily curious, as my wife, and I are bible fundamentalist, and we go by scripture above all things, and not culture. I am just curious as to how things can be so contrary to what is written in the bible.

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