Baring My Thoughts...

Spanking and Domestic Discipline
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NateG
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Location: Virginia

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by NateG » Wed May 30, 2018 1:26 pm

Interesting stuff

CassLynn
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Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by CassLynn » Wed May 30, 2018 2:04 pm

Wow. I am overwhelmed at what a deep and lengthy discussion would be required to address each item you mentioned. Overall, we have different interpretations of the Bible. I have no interest in trying to change anyone’s mind about how they interpret the Bible. I’m not thick skinned enough to present my case and face a rebuttal. I’ve been through that before. It’s painful and unproductive. Maybe when I’m more emotionally stable in a few years I could present an issue by issue exposition citing verses and all. Possibly others are willing and able.

In the meantime, I’m happy to wish you the best. The Bible, I think, is indisputable on one thing and that is a man should love and cherish his wife. Really that’s the critical thing and if that’s done other things tend to work out.

Lavendar
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 7:28 pm

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Lavendar » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:45 am

Here are my thoughts, based on what I have learned from years of study with doctoral trained and ordained pastors. My background, as I believe I have stated, is that of the reformed church. I am a 5 point Calvinist, although not a "neo-Calvinist". My beliefs are based on historical points of the church and an incredibly conservative view of the Bible, not on modern culture. My church eschews any pastor who takes verses out of context as a false prophet. This applies to the vast majority of fundamentalist celebrity mega church pastors in this country. I do not believe in female pastors, but I do believe in the encouragement found in Titus for women to support each other. That is the purpose of this post.

First, Christ never intended for us to read His parables literally. Quite the opposite, actually. He purposefully used cultural norms of His time to mask the real meaning. He was an absolute master of the cultural metaphor because He wanted true believers to understand His meaning while allowing those who would condemn Him to completely miss His meaning. To say that he is advocating for physical beating of a servant in that parable is to ignore the true meaning. He is actually referring to those who have rejected His teachings with or without knowledge of them. He used the beating language because it was a cultural norm, and thereby a metaphor that wouldn't cause unbelievers to criticize the teaching. It is people influenced by modern culture, even within a church, who read any of those parables literally. And that is a theological frightening thing, given His purpose for the metaphors. I feel that very few churches teach His reasoning.

Second, Adam was not punished because he let Eve lead him down the primrose path. He was punished for his own sin. A careful reading of that sequence will show you that Adam never takes responsibility for his own actions. He even goes so far as to blame God when he says, "The woman that You gave me." Sure, Eve is at fault for her own sin, but God punishes Adam because, as you say, Adam chooses not to use his own brain and follows someone else blindly. And don't think it was lost on God that Adam tried to blame Him too. Eve's femininity had nothing to do with it. They were equally sinners in that situation.

The verse from Corinthians is Paul speaking directly to the church at Corinth. He is using that as a rhetorical question to indicate that a visit in loving affection is far better than punishment. It is not condoning punishment, but rather giving them a choice. One could as easily use that verse to argue against CDD as to defend it.

Hosea is a book I don't know much about and will have to study before responding. I agree with CassLynn that it takes time to have this kind of discussion.

I will also toss out there that there are MANY occasions in the Bible where God could have been much more specific about this, but He chose not to. Again, the wife is to be submissive except in cases of sin, but God never specifically states how the husband is to bring that about.
Lavendar :)

Tatyana
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Location: Georgia

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Tatyana » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:15 am

Lavender,
Wow. You do know your theology. I’m running out now, but am going to read all of the references, etc. Very very awesome-another 5 point Calvinist. We’re few and far between; at least around here.
Tatyana

Lavendar
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 7:28 pm

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Lavendar » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:30 pm

Tatyana,
I know zero 5 point Calvinists outside my church, so it's refreshing to hear that you are one. I have been very blessed with my church. It's small, the pastors are practically family to me, and they're humble. I've learned an incredible amount of theology from them, and I know they've only scratched the surface.

Looking forward to further discussion!

-Lavendar
Lavendar :)

WesternHoH
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:41 am

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by WesternHoH » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:52 pm

Hello everyone. I haven’t had time to read all of the posts in this thread. If this has already been said, please forgive me.
Little bit of background: I too am a Calvinist (five pointers REPRESENT!). That being said, I acknowledge God is far bigger than any box I can attempt to put Him in. But, I know He has chosen to reveal Himself through His Word. Okay, here goes...
And this is coming from a HoH who practices DD...

I hate how some husbands use Scripture to condone their lording over their wives. Yes Ephesians 5 tells wives to submit. Then, in 5:25 it commands husbands to love their wife as Christ does the Church (paraphrasing). I believe Christ called His bride by name, rescued her from sin, death and hell by enduring agonizing torture on the cross, death, and for a time, separation from God (“why hast though forsaken me?”). Long story short, Jesus loves His bride so much that He did what He had to do in order to protect her—at the ultimate expense to Himself.

My personal belief—if that is not the mindset of a husband toward his wife, then that couple should NOT be practicing DD as their version will quickly spiral into abuse. Abuse has no place in anyone’s marriage, but certainly not in a Christian home or the Church! There is NO ROOM in the Kingdom for abuse, be it physical, emotional, or sexual. There is certainly no justifying such behavior by Scripture!

Now, I am not equating the love I have for my wife to that of Christ’s for His bride. His love is my role model. It is what I pursue. Goes without saying that I cannot come close to topping that. But, His model leaves no room for lording over my wife in an unkind or unloving way. With God’s relationship to His bride as the model for marriage, we see that He gives us boundaries for our protection. In love He disciplines us when we ignore those boundaries, for the purpose of restoration and safety. But He is also tremendously graceful, which is the point of the Gospel. Toward His bride—Unconditional love, necessary discipline when needed, but always unfailing and unending grace.

Okay, sorry to preach! Y’all we are having some church up in here. ;)

Lauren
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Location: Wisconsin

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Lauren » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:03 pm

Thank you WesternHoH for putting it perfectly!!

CassLynn
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Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by CassLynn » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:18 pm

WesternHoh I appreciate what you wrote also. Thank you. Abuse of authority was a big problem in old and New Testament times as it is today and I think DD can be abused just like anything else, whether in an extreme religious sense or an extreme control sense. When Jesus was on the earth He did not seek to be served, He himself served others. He washed His disciples’ feet. He was humble and never sought to humiliate. Using scripture as a guide to marital bahaviors and attitudes should always inspire devotion and tenderness in my opinion. A wife who can trust her husband with her submission and obedience is truly blessed because she knows he will not abuse his authority.

WesternHoH
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:41 am

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by WesternHoH » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:22 pm

CassLynn wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:18 pm
WesternHoh I appreciate what you wrote also. Thank you. Abuse of authority was a big problem in old and New Testament times as it is today and I think DD can be abused just like anything else, whether in an extreme religious sense or an extreme control sense. When Jesus was on the earth He did not seek to be served, He himself served others. He washed His disciples’ feet. He was humble and never sought to humiliate. Using scripture as a guide to marital bahaviors and attitudes should always inspire devotion and tenderness in my opinion. A wife who can trust her husband with her submission and obedience is truly blessed because she knows he will not abuse his authority.
Amen, sister! Well said.

Lauren
Posts: 1283
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:45 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Baring My Thoughts...

Post by Lauren » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:36 pm

Way to go CassLynn!! I am so proud of you!! That was point on.

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